你说的对。 说生产的4个要素的前提是生产。作为生产要素的资本的定义是生产工具。企业投资生产，一般讲是购买土地（自然资源），劳力和生产工具（资本）这3个要素。企业本身是企业家（entrepreneurs）要素。 投资产生的收益是利润；不是利息。

生产资料不和劳动力以及土地结合，不能成为资本。因为没有这个结合，产品都生产不出来，更谈不上利润。没有利润，生产资料就不是资本。

你懂个屁，利润不过是根据企业经营状况而浮动的利息。

机器，作为商品的价格，就是我们通常能看到的交换价格。
而当它作为资本被投资的时候，其作为资本的价格就是资本的报酬——利息。

你自己不懂。投资的收益是利润。企业投资，其产生的收益是利润，不是利息。生产工具的价值在下降，哪有利息？
常识懂吗？

在这个例子里，资本品收益与土地和劳动无关。

你不要忘了前提。

企业家要素也是劳动力。

机器（资本）在使用过程中，其价值是不断下降的，利息无从谈起。
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真傻呀，机器价格是不断下降，那还有产品源源不断地产出呢！你光看机器呀，傻*！
照你的傻*看法，利润也跟机器没关系，机器的价值不断下降，哪里来的利润！

你生产工具解释为资本是错误的，生产工具不一定投入生产，也不一定投入商品生产。

“当它作为资本被投资的时候，”
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你搞错了。是企业投资，购买资本（生产工具）。 这个资本（生产工具）是生产要素之一。4个生产要素合起来生产，生产出产品，卖掉，得到利润。  简而言之，企业投资赚得利润。 真个过程没有利息产生。生产工具（资本）的价值在下降，没有利息。
资本 capital 是 capital goods 的简写形式。资本不是钱。搞搞清楚。

机器，作为商品的价格，就是我们通常能看到的交换价格。
而当它作为资本被投资的时候，其作为资本的价格就是资本的报酬——利息。

简单的说机器的价格是利息，

利润不过是一种随着企业经营状况而浮动的利息罢了。

生产工具的价值在下降，哪来的利润？只能是剥削劳动者了，哈哈。

骑驴找驴，利润就是浮动的利息。

简单的说机器的价格是利息，
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辩论不过就开始栽赃陷害了。

机器的投资价格或资本价格是利息。

谁告诉你，利润就是浮动的利息？

企业家要素不是劳动力（labor）。 企业家要素指的是企业家把其它3个要素组合起来进行生产。

企业家是拿工资的，既然是拿工资的就是雇佣劳动者。

在生产资料还没有和劳动力结合的时候，生产资料并不是资本，因为它并没有在生产产品中发挥作用。

Factors of production 生产要素

The first factor of production is land, but this includes any natural resource used to produce goods and services. This includes not just land, but anything that comes from the land. Some common land or natural resources are water, oil, copper, natural gas, coal, and forests. Land resources are the raw materials in the production process. These resources can be renewable, such as forests, or nonrenewable such as oil or natural gas. The income that resource owners earn in return for land resources is called rent.

The second factor of production is labor. Labor is the effort that people contribute to the production of goods and services. Labor resources include the work done by the waiter who brings your food at a local restaurant as well as the engineer who designed the bus that transports you to school. It includes an artist's creation of a painting as well as the work of the pilot flying the airplane overhead. If you have ever been paid for a job, you have contributed labor resources to the production of goods or services. The income earned by labor resources is called wages and is the largest source of income for most people.

The third factor of production is capital. Think of capital as the machinery, tools and buildings humans use to produce goods and services. Some common examples of capital include hammers, forklifts, conveyer belts, computers, and delivery vans. Capital differs based on the worker and the type of work being done. For example, a doctor may use a stethoscope and an examination room to provide medical services. Your teacher may use textbooks, desks, and a whiteboard to produce education services. The income earned by owners of capital resources is interest.

The fourth factor of production is entrepreneurship. An entrepreneur is a person who combines the other factors of production - land, labor, and capital - to earn a profit. The most successful entrepreneurs are innovators who find new ways produce goods and services or who develop new goods and services to bring to market. Without the entrepreneur combining land, labor, and capital in new ways, many of the innovations we see around us would not exist. Think of the entrepreneurship of Henry Ford or Bill Gates. Entrepreneurs are a vital engine of economic growth helping to build some of the largest firms in the world as well as some of the small businesses in your neighborhood. Entrepreneurs thrive in economies where they have the freedom to start businesses and buy resources freely. The payment to entrepreneurship is profit.

You will notice that I did not include money as a factor of production. You might ask, isn't money a type of capital? Money is not capital as economists define capital because it is not a productive resource. While money can be used to buy capital, it is the capital good (things such as machinery and tools) that is used to produce goods and services. When was the last time you saw a carpenter pounding a nail with a five dollar bill or a warehouse foreman lifting a pallet with a 20 dollar bill? Money merely facilitates trade, but it is not in itself a productive resource.

Remember, goods and services are scarce because the factors of production used to produce them are scarce. In case you have forgotten, scarcity is described as limited quantities of resources to meet unlimited wants. Consider a pair of denim blue jeans. The denim is made of cotton, grown on the land. The land and water used to grow the cotton is limited and could have been used to grow a variety of different crops. The workers who cut and sewed the denim in the factory are limited labor resources who could have been producing other goods or services in the economy. The machines and the factory used to produce the jeans are limited capital resources that could have been used to produce other goods. This scarcity of resources means that producing some goods and services leaves other goods and services unproduced.

美联储 St Louis 分行

https://www.stlouisfed.org/educa ... ctors-of-production

私企的企业家总的来说是公司股东。其主要收入来源是公司的利润和公司价值的增加。

天知地知瞎造的。 目的就是要说私企收利息，所以剥削。

私企的股东企业家拿两份收入：利润和工资。作为股东获得利润，作为企业家获得工资。

杜尔哥。
他说投资的利润和借贷的利息都是资本报酬，本质是一样的。

确实如此，投资不过是一种特殊的借贷；股息不过是一种特殊的利息。

熊彼特在他的论述中，也把股东看作是借钱给企业的人而已。

机器是物，物不是人，机器没有行为能力，不能投资（行为）的。 是企业投资买机器。不要混淆。

是你理解能力太差了吧？谁说机器能投资了？

杜尔哥的话，你只说了一半，利润和利息的本质是一致的，都是垫支。

但是垫支是一致的，并不是利润就是利息。

你和狗在呼吸上是一种的，都是用肺，但是不能说你就是狗。

有一个美联储分行的经济普及文本在审查。那个讲得很清楚。

美联储的观点就是真理吗？连萨繆尔森的经济学都是漏洞百出。更何况美联储！

当代经济学不认可熊彼得说投资是借贷的观点。
投资是投资，借贷是借贷。
投资的收益是利润，
借贷的收益是利息。

企业是由主人的，股东就是企业的主人，说股东把钱借给企业，不过是说股东把钱借给自己！