FarEasternon Jun 8, 12:23 PMsaid:@Yesac13:
This is a poor example. As the autobahn was tool of war, not of commerce (same with the Eisenhower highway system). The commercial applications were an ancillary benefit. For its original purpose, it was VERY useful.
A better (successful) example would be the development of the Deutsche Bahn (NOT the company, but the rail network itself) that began in the 19th century. It united the German states and facilitated the industrial expansion of Germany proper. These types of infrastructure development projects are only possible under long-term development plans, they type of projects the US used to engage in until the 1970's.
These types of projects are made possible by using the economic theories of Alexander Hamilton/ Fredrick List of infant industry development and long term capacity development. They refused to acknowledge the parasitic British free trade system of Smith/Ricardo, List going as far to say that the British were "Kicking Away the Ladder" of economic development. They invested in long term projects and , wonder of wonders, they grew to be an industrial power from a back water agricultural society.
In other words; Renounce Smith/Ricardo (and the idiot economic fan-fiction writer of the 19th century, Marx) and go back to the economic system that built the United States, and we can have nice things again.
or not, and start learning Chinese.
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这是个不恰当的例子。这些高速公路是用于战争的，不是用于商业的（就像艾森豪威尔公路网一样）。商业上的运用是附带的好处。对它原本的用处来说，它非常有用。
一个更好（成功的）的例子应是开始于19世纪的德国铁路的发展（不是公司，而是铁路网络自身）它将德国联系在一起并在一定程度上促使了德国工业的发展。这种发展基础设施的工程需要有长期发展的规划才有可能，而美国过去运用这种类型的工程直到1970's 。
这种工程在使用亚历山大/汉密尔顿/弗雷德里的经济理论才有可能有长远发展能力。他们拒绝承认寄生式的英国史密斯/里卡多理论的自由贸易体系，事实将会表明英国已经被踢出经济发展的名单里。他们运用长期项目，创造一个又一个奇迹，他们从一个农业社会发展成工业强国。
换句话说：放弃史密斯/里卡多理论（还有19世纪愚蠢的经济学小说作家，马克思），使用过去建设美国的经济理论，这样我们能够再次变得更好。
或者，现在开始学中文吧。
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Yesac13on Jun 8, 3:28 PMsaid:@FarEastern:
I'll agree that the highways were successful for their original purposes, i.e., War.
I'm not one to disagree with the benefits of long term planning. Such long term planning are quite important in the long run. The issue is that I just don't have lots of faith in central planning, that's all. You can go too far in central planning... going too far can backfire. Look at the USSR for example. Even the Nazis is a good example of a failed central planner... Hitler and top level Nazis micromanaged too much while the Allied forces allowed their generals more free rein so to be more flexible. Remember the Great Leap Forward by China? China got better when central planning was curtailed!
Doing too much central planning sops up $$$ that could have been better used somewhere else. No way to know this for sure because we've had lots of central planning in the last century.
Still, I would love to visit China just to see those projects. I considered being an architect when I was younger but ended up in retail business.
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我同意公路被成功的用于了它的原始目的，换言之：战争。
我不否定长期计划有好处，这些长期发展计划在长期竞争中是非常重要的。问题是我对中央计划没有什么信心，就是这样。你可以设立非常长期的中央计划以至于长到适得其反。看看苏联这个例子，即使纳粹也是个中央计划失败的好例子...当同盟国允许普遍的较自由的控制而变得更灵活的时候希特勒和纳粹的高层却管的太宽。还记得大跃进时期的中国吗？中国在缩短中央计划后情况变得更好了！
中国做了太多中央计划用于对付美元而这些钱本可以用来做其他一些更好的事。没有办法确定这些事的好坏因为我们上世纪做了太多中央计划。
然而，我仍然想去中国看看这些工程。我年轻的时候曾经考虑过成为一个建筑师但是我最后投身了零售业。
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JoeGon Jun 8, 11:41 AMsaid:This is what you can accomplish when the politicians aren't waisting our money outside of of our country to buy favors. Elect people who care about us, not an ideology that the receivers of our monies could care less about.
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当政治家不再把我们的钱花在国外以讨好他人的时候这些我们都能做到。应该选举那些关心我们的人而不是那些拿了我们的钱却对我们漠不关心的人。
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Breezyon Jun 8, 11:50 AMsaid:Is anyone else stunned at how cheap these projects cost? Here in the states a couple of sports stadiums (our big projects don't add anything meaningful to our capacity) costs a billion dollars. They get complete hydroelectric projects for that kind of money ..
All these Chinese are squandering money on high speed rail, airports, water projects, hydroelectric, wind, etc. What a waste! NOT A SINGLE SPORTS STADIUM ON THE LIST! USA WINS AGAIN! KING OF SPORTS!
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没有人震惊于这些工程花费很少吗？我们州的两个大型运动场（话说我们的大工程对我们没有任何意义）花费了10亿美元。这些钱够得上建一个水力发电工程的钱了...
中国人在这些高速铁路、机场、水利工程、水力发电和风力发电等工程上浪费钱，太浪费啊！在这些计划中竟然没有一个大型运动场！美国又赢了！我们是体育之王！
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Know your stuffon Jun 8, 12:39 PMsaid:@Breezy:
Year ago, our municipality was discussing extending the metro line to NE suburb. It was budgeted at 1 billion per mile but never realized.
Compared to what China is spending on project, they certainly use money wisely.
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一年前，我们当地的ZF考虑扩展城市公路到东北部的郊区，即使预算达到每英里10亿也没有问题
和中国在工程上的花费相比，毫无疑问他们更合理的使用资金
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choice tohon Jun 8, 12:00 PMsaid:
i thought China was a bubble? what about the abandoned malls? or the bailout? lol
http://seekingalpha.com/user/926530/instablog/full_index
China is stronger than ever and this is good for America
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我认为中国是一个泡沫，看到被他们抛弃的购物中心了吗？哈哈
http://seekingalpha.com/user/926530/instablog/full_index
中国比以前强大了但是这对美国有好处。
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Dbon Jun 8, 4:08 PMsaid:@choice toh:
yeah like the "gold bubble"
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对，就像“黄金泡沫”
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FarEasternon Jun 8, 3:21 PMsaid:@Brian B: Three silly examples do not an argument make.
You left out that during all of those encounters the US could outproduce its adversaries with its superior industrial base and know-how. America won WWII due to Detroit, not squared-jawed GI JOE lookalikes.
Same was true for the Cold War, the US could always outproduce the CCCP, not because of free-market malarkey, but do to an industrial capacity that far exceeded the Soviet bloc.
As far as Japan is concerned, well, open up a computer sometime. They may be "designed in California" but the proprietary components (the parts that are assembled in China, but that is changing) say MADE IN JAPAN. Japan hasn't gone away, even if you would like to pretend they have.
But don't worry, when the Chinese get to the level of top dog, I'm sure they will be more than happy to accept free trade. America can then use it's comparative advantage in agriculture and China can do the value-added activities.
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你忽略了美国更好的工业基地和诀窍而这些使它在那些竞争中总能超过它的对手。美国是靠底特律赢得二战，而不是靠方下巴的美国大兵。
这也同样适用于冷战，美国在生产上总能超过苏联，不是因为狗屁自由市场，而是靠远超过苏维埃的工业能力。
就日本而言，开发一款新的电脑，或许是“加州设计”但是零件（这些零件是在中国组装的，但这点正在改变）却标着“日本制造”。日本并没有衰落，即使你倾向于假装他们衰落了。
但不要担心，当中国成为老大的时候，我确定他们会更愿意接受自由贸易。美国可以利用自身在农业方面的比较优势而中国可以从中获得增值利益。
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