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2017-12-3 21:55:19
xiaosyu 发表于 2017-12-3 21:14
好欢乐的帖子
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2017-12-3 22:01:39
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2092258/Native-Americans-actually-came-tiny-mountain-region-Russia-DNA-research-reveals.html

DNA测试结果显示,印第安人的血缘来自俄罗斯中部的一个小部落,印第安人是蒙古人种的后裔,估计几万年前从俄罗斯白令海峡走到了美洲大陆,同中国人一样,印第安人同属于蒙古人种。
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2017-12-3 22:03:24
印第安人长相确实也同西藏人、蒙古人很类似,那个小部落紧挨着今天的蒙古边境

Native Americans actually came from a tiny mountain region in Siberia, DNA research reveals
Tiny region in central Russia has DNA link to native Americans today
Ancestors thought to have walked across ice 13,000 years ago
Altai is 'key place', because central location means ancient peoples passed through
By Rob Waugh
UPDATED: 23:21 GMT, 26 January 2012
   

Altai in southern Siberia sits right at the centre of Russia. But the tiny, mountainous republic has a claim to fame unknown until now - Native Americans can trace their origins to the remote region.
DNA research revealed that genetic markers linking people living in the Russian republic of Altai, southern Siberia, with indigenous populations in North America.
A study of the mutations indicated a lineage shift between 13,000 and 14,000 years ago - when people are thought to have walked across the ice from Russia to America.
Altai in Siberia: A study of genetic markers in DNA showed that the lineage of Native Americans changed around 13-14,000 years ago - when people are thought to have walked across the Bering Strait
Altai in Siberia: A study of genetic markers in DNA showed that the lineage of Native Americans changed around 13-14,000 years ago - when people are thought to have walked across the Bering Strait
This roughly coincides with the period when humans from Siberia are thought to have crossed what is now the Bering strait and entered America.
'Altai is a key area because it's a place where people have been coming and going for thousands and thousands of years,' said Dr Theodore Schurr, from the University of Pennsylvania in the US.
Among the people who may have emerged from the Altai region are the predecessors of the first Native Americans.
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Roughly 20-25,000 years ago, these prehistoric humans carried their Asian genetic lineages up into the far reaches of Siberia and eventually across the then-exposed Bering land mass into the Americas.
'Our goal in working in this area was to better define what those founding lineages or sister lineages are to Native American populations,' Schurr said.
The region lies at the intersection of what is now Russia, Mongolia, China and Kazakhstan.
An engraving of early native Americans from the 1500s: DNA research hints that their ancestors came from one tiny region in central Russia
An engraving of early native Americans from the 1500s: DNA research hints that their ancestors came from one tiny region in central Russia
Dr Schurr's team checked Altai DNA samples for markers in mitochondrial DNA which is always passed on by mothers, and Y chromosome DNA which sons inherit from their fathers.
Because of the large number of gene markers examined, the findings have a high degree of precision.
'At this level of resolution we can see the connections more clearly,' Schurr said.
Looking at the Y chromosome DNA, the researchers found a unique mutation shared by Native Americans and southern Altaians in the lineage known as Q.
Mitochondrial DNA is found in tiny rod-like 'powerplants' in cells that generate energy.
Both kinds of DNA showed links between Altaians and Native Americans.
Locator map for Altai

In the Y chromosome DNA, the researchers found a unique mutation shared by Native Americans and people from southern Altai.
The findings are published today in the American Journal of Human Genetics.
Calculating how long the mutations they noted took to arise, Schurr's team estimated that the southern Altaian lineage diverged genetically from the Native American lineage 13,000 to 14,000 years ago, a timing scenario that aligns with the idea of people moving into the Americas from Siberia between 15,000 and 20,000 years ago.
Though it's possible, even likely, that more than one wave of people crossed the land bridge, Schurr said that other researchers have not yet been able to identify another similar geographic focal point from which Native Americans can trace their heritage.
'It may change with more data from other groups, but, so far, even with intensive work in Mongolia, they're not seeing the same things that we are,' he said.
In addition to elucidating the Asia-America connection, the study confirms that the modern cultural divide between southern and northern Altaians has ancient genetic roots


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2092258/Native-Americans-actually-came-tiny-mountain-region-Russia-DNA-research-reveals.html#ixzz50CrvtBok
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2017-12-3 22:16:19
提示: 作者被禁止或删除 内容自动屏蔽
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2017-12-3 22:37:29
xiaosyu 发表于 2017-12-3 21:19
托克骗子当年去美国是研究当地的司法体系,因为法国内政动荡,他没办法再在国内继续向律师职业方向努力,职 ...
不知是你的眼睛问题,还是你的英文问题,或立场问题,把一些重要细节给漏掉了。

人家说他在美国共花了nine months,这nine months对一个出国人员来说还叫短吗?returned with a wealth of broader observations,带回了极为丰富的观察。 With its trenchant observations,这个观察可不是简单的观察,而是鞭辟入里。他的著作remains a valuable explanation of America to Europeans and of Americans to themselves,他对美欧和美国人自身留下了有很有价值的解释。remains widely read and even more widely quoted by politicians, philosophers, historians and anyone seeking to understand the American character.他的著作受到政治家,哲学家,历史学家,以及想了解美国特点的人的广泛阅读和引用。

如此一个身体力行的历史学家,做了如此的观察,受到如此广泛的引用,在你心目中却成了一个什么“骗子”,你还推测人家什么交往交谈的时间不长,我看这个骗子角色要跟你倒过来交换才物归原主,才名副其实。
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2017-12-3 22:49:41
xiaosyu 发表于 2017-12-3 21:30
Selkirk settlers ,也叫红河殖民地Red River Colony, 是苏格兰贵族Thomas Douglas, 5th Earl of Selkirk资 ...
可见,双方对土地开始是自由交换的,后来发生了贸易纠纷才引发双方武力争夺,这能指责某方单方吗?

此外,效忠英法ZF的群体叫“殖民军”,争取美国独立的群体叫“解放军”,这恐怕更贴切些。可见,当时的印第安人屁股坐在谁一边,谁在“为虎作伥”,对“为虎作伥”者予以消灭,这还能叫“屠杀”吗?
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2017-12-3 22:53:26


太搞笑了

9个月时间(大多数时间用于坐车坐船和睡觉吃饭),访问了一个国家有限的城市村庄之类,就可以了解一个外国历史,用了一周时间和某个监狱所有囚犯交流,就可以了解印第安文化了。

他们回去立即就发布了对美国监狱系统研究的论文,说明主要研究的就是法律体系,观察的也是法律体系。

5年以后,这个骗子闭门造车自己关在家里研究就可以发布对印第安文化的论断了????


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2017-12-3 22:54:44
he_zr 发表于 2017-12-3 22:49
可见,双方对土地开始是自由交换的,后来发生了贸易纠纷才引发双方武力争夺,这能指责某方单方吗?

此 ...
你竟然不知道HUDSON BAY的由来????????
The company was incorporated by English royal charter in 1670 as The Governor and Company of Adventurers of England trading into Hudson's Bay and functioned as the de facto government in parts of North America before European states and later the United States laid claim to some of those territories.[9] It was once the world's largest landowner, with the area of the Hudson Bay watershed, known as Rupert's Land, having 15% of North American acreage.
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2017-12-3 23:05:38
xiaosyu 发表于 2017-12-3 22:53
太搞笑了

9个月时间(大多数时间用于坐车坐船和睡觉吃饭),访问了一个国家有限的 ...
别在这里主观臆断了,他与什么人交谈,多还是少,了解了什么内情,另外的历史学家已经做了评述,而你除了用指头掐算时间,还屁股决定脑袋,就声称人家什么“骗子闭门造车”。不说别的,人家那9个月的时间亲身力为,实地考察,也叫“闭门”吗?而你做了什么,除了在这里坐而论道,主观臆测,谁更像骗子?
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2017-12-3 23:09:11
xiaosyu 发表于 2017-12-3 22:53
太搞笑了

9个月时间(大多数时间用于坐车坐船和睡觉吃饭),访问了一个国家有限的 ...
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2017-12-3 23:12:40
xiaosyu 发表于 2017-12-3 22:54
你竟然不知道HUDSON BAY的由来????????
The company was incorporated by English roy ...
谁是什么立场,谁说什么不是关键,关键是人们要从符合历史的逻辑和脉络里找出真相,而不是人云亦云。
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2017-12-3 23:26:45
he_zr 发表于 2017-12-3 23:05
别在这里主观臆断了,他与什么人交谈,多还是少,了解了什么内情,另外的历史学家已经做了评述,而你除了 ...
诚心诚意的建议你去读两本小说: 乱世佳人 汤姆叔叔的小屋

至少可以对美国殖民历史有个最基本的了解和常识,可以从侧面了解殖民者所谓的“”耕种“种植”指的的是什么?

密西西西比河,美国南方的种植园,棉花种植园的惨状,强壮黑奴几年内被折磨致死的历史.....

无知是很可怕的

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2017-12-3 23:27:38
可以客观公正的说,只要是个人,有人性的人,都会强烈反对殖民者的“”农业“”“”种植业“”
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2017-12-3 23:33:33
和缺乏基本常识的人交流实在是太浪费时间,不会再回复了。

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2017-12-3 23:43:03
在乱世佳人了,多次写到斯嘉丽(家住亚特兰大附近区域)每每威胁家里不懂事的小黑女奴,威胁要将她卖到南方去,每个黑奴一想到可能要被卖到南方去,就被吓得要死,觉得快要立刻死掉了。

乱世佳人里面多次写到:斯嘉丽的父亲脾气粗如暴躁,是来自爱尔兰的农民,多次酒后咒骂要把不顺心的黑奴卖到南方去,但家里黑奴没有一人会因此而感到害怕,因为大家都知道她的父亲心肠软的一塌糊涂,把黑奴当成自家家人来照顾,不会抛弃任何一个年老体弱的黑奴,给黑奴养老,根本不舍得把人买去做牲畜。所以屡次提到他是一个真正的绅士。

南方就是指的南方种植园,密西西比河流域赶走了印第安人之后建立的棉花种植园,就连北方区域的奴隶主、殖民者都会在心里骂南方奴隶主是喝人血的恶魔,所谓的种植业就是喝黑奴的人血。
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2017-12-3 23:50:14
xiaosyu 发表于 2017-12-3 23:26
诚心诚意的建议你去读两本小说: 乱世佳人 汤姆叔叔的小屋

至少可以对美国殖民历史有个最基本的了解和 ...
别拿小说来充当什么“常识”,也别带着立场来做历史研究。否则,说人家骗子,无异于是自诉状。

再说,移民与原住民之间的矛盾跟蓄奴完全是两码事。你这种是非不清,张冠李戴,肆意煽情的做法,那才叫可怕。
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2017-12-4 00:08:29
he_zr 发表于 2017-12-3 23:50
别拿小说来充当什么“常识”,也别带着立场来做历史研究。否则,说人家骗子,无异于是自诉状。

再说, ...
你的所有辩解都是诡辩,类似泼妇吵架的低级招数,虽然无知, 但并不缺乏战斗技巧和耐心
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2017-12-4 00:23:23
xiaosyu 发表于 2017-12-4 00:08
你的所有辩解都是诡辩,类似泼妇吵架的低级招数,虽然无知, 但并不缺乏战斗技巧和耐心
瞧你这番言辞,理论不过就开始把自己装扮成一个评论家,试图来一番花言巧语的评头品足就得以抬高自己身段,虎视他人。其实,你跟楼主和那位w都差不多,你只不过比那两个脓包多了一付看上去较斯文的眼镜而已,本质还是一路货色。
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2017-12-4 00:41:07
he_zr 发表于 2017-12-4 00:23
瞧你这番言辞,理论不过就开始把自己装扮成一个评论家,试图来一番花言巧语的评头品足就得以抬高自己身段 ...
劝几句:

大丈夫输人不输阵,论点错了,论据引用错了,认错就是,没必要绷着个面子,死活揪着错误坚持、一路狡辩到底。

讨论理论是学习思考的一种方式,观点错了,但被他人指证了,因此学习到新的知识,就是好事。
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2017-12-4 00:47:01
xiaosyu 发表于 2017-12-4 00:41
劝几句:

大丈夫输人不输阵,论点错了,论据引用错了,认错就是,没必要绷着个面子,死活揪着错误坚持 ...
你老在把自己打扮成高人一等,劝这劝那的,你自己办到了吗?
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2017-12-4 03:52:45
he_zr 发表于 2017-12-4 00:47
你老在把自己打扮成高人一等,劝这劝那的,你自己办到了吗?
  转帖一份1942年美国农业部编制的官方有关印第安人农业发展的研究报告目录,在种族主义盛行的年代美国农业部开篇就在简介里肯定了印第安人在农业方面对人类文明作出的贡献,目录里收录了诸多篇研究印第安各部落农业技术发展的报告目录


A Bibliography on the Agriculture of the American Indians
Agriculture.pdf
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BIBLIOGRAPHY ON THE AGRICULTURE OF THEAMERICAN INDIANS

Compiled by EVERETT E. EDWAEDS and WAYNE D. RASMUSSEN

Bureau of Agricultural Economics
1INTRODUCTION

If the "Western Hemisphere had been unoccupied by an aboriginalpeople, the story of its conquest by Europeans would have been quitediflerent. Although the American Indian was the cause of the redline of conflict on the frontier, he made many contributions to ourpresent civilization (48).2 Not the least of these were his agriculturalplants, methods, and processes. It has been estimated that fourseventhsof the total agricultural production of the United States,measured m farm values, consists of economic plants that weredomesticated by the Indian and taken over by the white man (104-105). The extent of the debt to the Indian for his work of domesticationis emphasized when we recall that the white man has notreduced to cultivation a single important staple during the 400 yearsthat he has dominated the New "World.In taking possession of the continent

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2017-12-4 04:31:16
加拿大官方1907年的研究报告:
Agriculture of the North American Indian
  
[This text was originally published in 1907 by the Bureau of American Ethnology as part of its Handbook of American Indians North of Mexico. It was later reproduced, in 1913, by the Geographic Board of Canada. The work done by the American Bureau was monumental, well informed and incorporated the most advanced scholarship available at the time. In many respects, the information is still useful today, although prudence should be exercised and the reader should consult some of the contemporary texts on the history and the anthropology of the North American Indians suggested in the bibliographic introduction to this section. The articles were not completely devoid of the paternalism and the prejudices prevalent at the time. While some of the terminology used would not pass the test of our "politically correct" era, most terms have been left unchanged by the editor. If a change in the original text has been effected it will be found between brackets [.] The original work contained long bibliographies that have not been reproduced for this web edition. For the full citation, see the end of the text.]

[For further information consult the page at the Encyclopedia of North American Indians ]


An opinion long prevailed in the minds of the people that the Indians N. of Mexico were, previous to and at the time Europeans began to settle that part of the continent, virtually nomads, having no fixed abodes, and hence practising agriculture to a very limited extent. Why this opinion has been entertained by the masses, who have learned it from tales and traditions of Indian life and warfare as they have been since the establishment of European colonies, can be readily understood, but why writers who have had access to the older records should thus speak of them is not easily explained, when these records, speaking of the temperate regions, almost without exception notice the fact that the Indians were generally found, from the border of the western plains to the Atlantic, dwelling in settled villages and cultivating the soil. De Soto found all the tribes that he visited, from the Florida peninsula to the western part of Arkansas , cultivating maize and various other food plants. The early voyagers found the same thing true along the Atlantic from Florida to Massachusetts . Capt. John Smith and his Jamestown colony, indeed all the early colonies, depended at first very largely for subsistence on the products of Indian cultivation. Jacques Cartier, the first European who ascended the St. Lawrence, found the Indians of Hochelaga ( Montreal id.) cultivating the soil. "They have," he remarks, "good and large fields of corn." Champlain and other early French explorers testify to the large reliance of the Iroquois on the cultivation of the soil for subsistence. La Salle and his companions observed the Indians of Illinois, and thence southward along the Mississippi , cultivating and to a large extent subsisting on maize.

Sagard, an eyewitness of what he reports, says, in speaking of the agriculture of the Hurons in 1623-26, that they dug a round place at every 2 feet or less, where they planted in the month of May in each hole nine or ten grains of corn which they had previously selected, culled, and soaked for several days in water. And every year they thus planted their corn in the same places or spots, which they renovated with their small wooden shovels. He indicates the height of the corn by the statement that he lost his way quicker in these fields than in the prairies or forests ( Hist. du Canada , I, 265-266, 1636, repr. 1866).

Indian corn, the great American cereal, "was found in cultivation from the southern extremity of Chile to the 50th parallel of N. latitude." (Brinton, Myths of the New World , 22, 1868). "All the nations who inhabit from the sea as far as the Illinois, and even farther, carefully cultivate the maize corn, which they make their principal subsistence" (Du Pratz, Hist. La ., II, 239, 1763). "The whole of the tribes situated, in the Mississippi valley, in Ohio and the lakes reaching on both sides of the Alleghenies, quite to Massachusetts and other parts of New England, cultivated Indian corn. It was the staple product" (Schoolcraft, Ind. Tribes, I, 80, 1851).

The great length of the period previous to the discovery during which maize had been in cultivation is proved by its differentiation into varieties, of which there were four in Virginia; by the fact that charred corn and impressions of corn on burnt clay have been found in the mounds and in the ruins of prehistoric pueblos in the S. W.; by the Delaware tradition; and by the fact that the builders of the oldest mounds must have been tillers of the soil.

Some idea of the extent of the cultivation of maize by some of the tribes may be gained from the following estimates: The amount of corn (probably in the ear) of the Iroquois destroyed by Denonville in 1687 was estimated at 1,000,000 bushels (Charlevoix, Hist. Nouv. Fr ., II, 355, 1744; also Doc. Hist. N. Y ., I, 238, 1849). According to Tonti, who accompanied the expedition, they were engaged seven days in cutting up the corn of 4 villages. Gen. Sullivan, in his expedition into the Iroquois country, destroyed 160,000 bushels of corn and cut down the Indian orchards; in one orchard alone 1,500 apple trees were destroyed ( Hist. N. Y. During the Revolutionary War , II, 334, 1879). Gen. Wayne, writing from Grand Glaize in 1794, says: "The margins of these beautiful rivers - the Miami of the Lake and the Au Glaize - appear like one continuous village for a number of miles, both above and below this place; nor have I ever before beheld such immense fields of corn in any part of America from Canada to Florida" (Manypenny, Ind. Wards , 84, 1880).

If we are indebted to the Indians for maize, without which the peopling of America would probably have been delayed for a century; it is also from them that the whites learned the methods of planting, storing, and using it. The ordinary corncribs, set on posts, are copies of those in use among the Indians, which Lawson described in 1701 ( Hist. Car ., 35, repr. 1860).

Beans, squashes, pumpkins, sweet potatoes, tobacco, gourds, and the sunflower were also cultivated to some extent, especially in what are now the southern states. According to Beverly ( Hist. Va . , 125-128, 1722), the Indians had two varieties of sweet potatoes. Marquette , speaking of the Illinois Indians, says that in addition to maize, "they also sow beans and melons, which are excellent, especially those with a red seed. Their squashes are not of the best; they dry them in the sun to eat in the winter and spring" ( Voy. and Discov ., in French, Hist. Coll. La ., IV, 33,1852).

Return to the Index page of Indians of Canada and Quebec

Source: James WHITE, ed., Handbook of Indians of Canada, Published as an Appendix to the Tenth Report of the Geographic Board of Canada, Ottawa, 1913, 632p., pp. 10-11. Consult the entry under agriculture at the Encyclopedia of North American Indians.

链接: http://faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.belanger/quebechistory/encyclopedia/agricultureindian.htm
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2017-12-4 09:58:21
leijy 发表于 2017-12-3 22:16
无需抓住这个,扣人家搞种族歧视大帽子哦!
种族歧视的大帽子可是你给他扣的!我从来没有说过这样的话!

我只是要求他提供证据,不要做洋奴才,为西方殖民者的龌龊行为洗地!

想不到你雷某人竟然如此敏感,把我要求他提供证据的话理解成了“种族歧视”!哈哈哈哈,看来你确实认为他有种族主义嫌疑啊!哈哈哈哈!
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2017-12-4 10:43:15
xiaosyu 发表于 2017-12-4 00:41
劝几句:

大丈夫输人不输阵,论点错了,论据引用错了,认错就是,没必要绷着个面子,死活揪着错误坚持 ...
他根本就不是做学术之人,你劝他不要胡编乱造、歪曲事实、颠倒黑白,那么他就再也无事可做了。
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2017-12-4 11:41:49
wzwswswz 发表于 2017-12-4 10:43
他根本就不是做学术之人,你劝他不要胡编乱造、歪曲事实、颠倒黑白,那么他就再也无事可做了。
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2017-12-4 12:08:26
提示: 作者被禁止或删除 内容自动屏蔽
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2017-12-4 12:48:10
leijy 发表于 2017-12-4 12:08
你帖子题目就是给人家扣大帽子哦!
我的题目仅仅是陈述一个事实,仅仅是陈述he_zr说了什么话,没有表达我自己的任何想法,哪有我“给人家扣大帽子”?
而你说我“给人家扣种族歧视的大帽子”才是你无中生有地给我扣帽子!
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2017-12-4 13:03:33
leijy 发表于 2017-12-4 12:08
你帖子题目就是给人家扣大帽子哦!
雷某人认为he_zr有“种族歧视”嫌疑
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2017-12-4 13:04:13
leijy 发表于 2017-12-4 12:08
你帖子题目就是给人家扣大帽子哦!
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2017-12-4 13:47:03
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