我已经是两次告诉你，我用的是排除法，不是直接定义“科学”是什么，给“科学”下定义重千钧，必须是慎之又慎，所以只用排除法。

你说我缺乏基本的科学常识，那请你指出来？

    你的帖子字数不多，却道出了真正的东西，中华文明需要你这样理智的知识英雄。

            xvzz的观点与我完全一致，我以前就提出过，美国、欧洲等发达国家不是靠民主、不是靠市场经济而强大的，而是靠科学，他们不像世界宣扬科学，却是到处兜售民主、市场经济，中国的经济学家们、中国的理论家们就真信。
      邓小平早就提出“科学技术第一生产力”，而现在却只讲市场经济，认为只要有了市场经济，一切就万事大吉了，把邓小平的“科学技术是第一生产力”丢在脑后了。       中国的经济学家、知识分子被西方理论、西方经济学、西方意识、西方价值观给忽悠晕了。

我并不这么认为，作者只是针对彭斯说的话做质疑与诘问，指向可以是民主的脆弱面，或者民主的发展路径。没有必要这么急急的就以自己的想法覆盖别人的看法。

你所列举的是一种特定的民主制度，不是民主的根本本质。既然是民主，那么这个制度内所有人都有相应的民主权力，根本同等的权力。

你能科学证明选举意义是0？

民主不是上层建筑的权力分配，而是下层社会的人自觉实现自己权力，怎样实现自己权力。

如果所有的选举都是人民的自觉选择，那自然没有问题，可实际并没有这样的人民。

要理解“教主、君主、民主”等等概念，首先要理解主与仆这对概念。
接下来就是“权”的概念。属于个人的就叫权利；属于公共的就叫权力。
如果个人权利是教会或者皇帝恩赐的，那就是教主制或君主制（民为仆）。
如果公权力是个人权利的托付，那就是民主制（公权力为仆）。

业主与物业管理公司之间的关系，那就是主与仆的关系。业主把一部分个人权利托付给物业管理公司，那么物业管理公司就掌握了公权力，这样的公权力就是仆的角色。业主仍然保留着“甄别、选举、监管、罢免”等等权利，这就是主的角色。

第一，我并没有讨论哪国的制度，而是就民主本身的来认知。第二，民主之下没有什么贪心之说，如果是人民要求的（不是我或者某个个人），那么错的不会是人民，而是制度。第三，为什么要骂呢？显示我没有素质？我不会骂美国ZF，当然如果我国ZF有问题，那就是建议与起诉了，最终就是革命。第四，投票这个事还是有的好。

主仆关系在现代社会只是一个比喻，不是规范的用词。我国称为公务员，其社会关系是分工。

九十年代，江道德与崩溃的、能否存在下去的前苏联主体俄罗斯签署协议，出卖了不在任何中俄条约的国土至少50多万平方公里，甚至放弃了乌苏里江出海口。
本文来自: 人大经济论坛 马克思主义经济学 版，详细出处参考： https://bbs.pinggu.org/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=6727634&page=12&from^^uid=10415773

说这话是要负责任的，你能拿出证据来吗？拿不出证据，你知道说这话是什么后果。

雇主与雇员就是规范用词，而且两者之间的关系也的确就是主仆之间的关系。如果你认为“仆”这个词太过奴化，那也可以另外找一个词来替代它。能够与“主”的概念相对就行。

你回的不错，但像这种论调不必理会。

如果要论科学性，就必须严格，不然没有讨论必要，只是侃大山而已。社会主义国家就是“各尽所能按劳分配”，这是核心制度。公务员不是随便说说，是分工制度的法定。

我前贴也只谈词语表达。纯语文的问题最好不要把“主义”也牵扯进来，因为抵触情绪对语文问题毫无益处。

那是你的问题，我就是马克思主义者，不存在。我们就是认为公务员是中性词语，一个分工制度的产物。

那是你的问题，我就是马克思主义者，不存在。我们就是认为公务员是中性词语，一个分工制度的产物。

玩选票，选举的结果可以被金钱、势力操控。而且事实上已经被操控，彭斯一不小心，不打自招了。既然可以被操控，那选民的投票行为就毫无意义，通过选票产生的政权及人事就与选民毫无关系，记住，是毫无关系，更不要奢谈什么民主之类的空泛概念了。对这一点，很多回帖网友都不愿正视，或通过发一些情绪化言论转移话题。可见，这个帖子击中了某些人的要害，对那些被选票搞得昏昏冥冥的人来说，这叫当头一棒。      
      对理智的人，我另有一句话——在大众人群玩选票违反科学。知道这一句话，就足够了。

语文问题你扯“主义”干什么？马克思可不是你们那样的人，不是马克思主义者。

美国副总统发言的原文： 同学们花时间读读吧，和中文对比一下，看看彭斯的用意和重点是否有所不同。 我这贴了一小部分。

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-vice-president-pence-administrations-policy-toward-china/


Remarks by Vice President Pence on the Administration’s Policy Toward China
Issued on: October 4, 2018
The Hudson Institute
Washington, D.C.



THE VICE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Ken, for that kind introduction. To the Members of the Board of Trustees, to Dr. Michael Pillsbury, to our distinguished guests, and to all of you who, true to your mission in this place, “think about the future in unconventional ways” –- it is an honor to be back at the Hudson Institute.

For more than a half a century, this Institute has dedicated itself to “advancing global security, prosperity, and freedom.” And while Hudson’s hometowns have changed over the years, one thing has been constant: You have always advanced that vital truth, that American leadership lights the way.

And today, speaking of leadership, allow me to begin by bringing greetings from a great champion of American leadership at home and abroad –- I bring greetings from the 45th President of the United States of America, President Donald Trump. (Applause.)

From early in this administration, President Trump has made our relationship with China and President Xi a priority. On April 6th of last year, President Trump welcomed President Xi to Mar-a-Lago. On November 8th of last year, President Trump traveled to Beijing, where China’s leader welcomed him warmly.

Over the course of the past two years, our President has forged a strong personal relationship with the President of the People’s Republic of China, and they’ve worked closely on issues of common interest, most importantly the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

But I come before you today because the American people deserve to know that, as we speak, Beijing is employing a whole-of-government approach, using political, economic, and military tools, as well as propaganda, to advance its influence and benefit its interests in the United States.

China is also applying this power in more proactive ways than ever before, to exert influence and interfere in the domestic policy and politics of this country.

Under President Trump’s leadership, the United States has taken decisive action to respond to China with American action, applying the principles and the policies long advocated in these halls.

In our National Security Strategy that the President Trump released last December, he described a new era of “great power competition.” Foreign nations have begun to, as we wrote, “reassert their influence regionally and globally,” and they are “contesting [America’s] geopolitical advantages and trying [in essence] to change the international order in their favor.”

In this strategy, President Trump made clear that the United States of America has adopted a new approach to China. We seek a relationship grounded in fairness, reciprocity, and respect for sovereignty, and we have taken strong and swift action to achieve that goal.

As the President said last year on his visit to China, in his words, “we have an opportunity to strengthen the relationship between our two countries and improve the lives of our citizens.” Our vision of the future is built on the best parts of our past, when America and China reached out to one another in a spirit of openness and friendship.

When our young nation went searching in the wake of the Revolutionary War for new markets for our exports, the Chinese people welcomed American traders laden with ginseng and fur.

When China suffered through indignities and exploitations during her so-called “Century of Humiliation,” America refused to join in, and advocated the “Open Door” policy, so that we could have freer trade with China, and preserve their sovereignty.

When American missionaries brought the good news to China’s shores, they were moved by the rich culture of an ancient and vibrant people. And not only did they spread their faith, but those same missionaries founded some of China’s first and finest universities.

When the Second World War arose, we stood together as allies in the fight against imperialism. And in that war’s aftermath, America ensured that China became a charter member of the United Nations, and a great shaper of the post-war world.

But soon after it took power in 1949, the Chinese Communist Party began to pursue authoritarian expansionism. It is remarkable to think that only five years after our nations had fought together, we fought each other in the mountains and valleys of the Korean Peninsula. My own father saw combat on that frontier of freedom.

But not even the brutal Korean War could diminish our mutual desire to restore the ties that for so long had bound our peoples together. China’s estrangement from the United States ended in 1972, and, soon after, we re-established diplomatic relations and began to open our economies to one another, and American universities began training a new generation of Chinese engineers, business leaders, scholars, and officials.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, we assumed that a free China was inevitable. Heady with optimism at the turn of the 21st Century, America agreed to give Beijing open access to our economy, and we brought China into the World Trade Organization.

你觉得的是你自己觉得的，世界还是世界。